The gloves came off at Wednesday’s Senate Finance Committee confirmation hearing for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as HHS secretary, with Democratic senators grilling Kennedy about his views on vaccines and Republicans praising his views on chronic disease and nutrition.
A Peaceful Start
The hearing started off peacefully enough. Committee Chair Sen. Mike Crapo (R-Idaho) welcomed Kennedy, noting his oft-repeated pledge to end the country’s chronic disease epidemic.
“If confirmed, you will have the opportunity to chart a new and better course for the federal approach to tackling both the drivers and the consequences of our ailing healthcare system,” he said. “Your commitment to combating chronic conditions that drive healthcare costs will be critical to our success. Prioritizing disease prevention and addressing the factors that fuel conditions such as diabetes, cardiovascular disease … and cancer will save lives, reduce costs, and build a healthier, stronger country.”
However, Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), the committee’s ranking member, came out fighting. “Committee staff have examined thousands of pages of statements, books, and podcast transcripts in a review of his record, and the receipts show that Mr. Kennedy has embraced conspiracy theories, quacks, and charlatans, especially when it comes to the safety and efficacy of vaccines,” he said.
“Mr. Kennedy is fond of saying he’s not making recommendations about whether parents should vaccinate their children — he’s just asking questions and giving people choices,” Wyden added. “It’s a slippery tactic to dodge any real responsibility for his words and actions, and it is, in my view, absurd, coming from somebody who’s trying to win confirmation for a job that is entirely about making recommendations.”
Focus on Chronic Diseases, Vaccines
In his opening testimony, Kennedy reiterated his commitment to reducing the incidence of chronic diseases. He noted that nearly 20% of the gross domestic product in the U.S. is spent on healthcare.
“Why are healthcare costs so high in the first place? The obvious answer is chronic disease,” he said. “There is no single culprit in chronic disease, as much as I have criticized certain industries and agencies … President Trump and I understand that most of their scientists and experts genuinely care about American health; therefore, we will bring together all stakeholders in pursuit of this unifying goal.”
Kennedy also tried to lay to rest concerns that he was anti-vaccine. “I believe that vaccines play a critical role in healthcare,” he said. “All of my kids are vaccinated. I’ve written many books on vaccines. My first book in 2014, the first line of it is, ‘I am not anti-vaccine,’ and the last line is, ‘I am not anti-vaccine.'”
“You are!” shouted one audience member, who was quickly removed by police officers. A few similar disruptions occurred but were also quickly dispelled.
Kennedy’s claims that he was not anti-vaccine also brought fierce pushback from Democrats. “During a podcast interview in July of 2023, you said, ‘No vaccine is safe and effective,'” said Wyden. “In your testimony today … you note that all your kids are vaccinated. But in a podcast in 2020 you said, and I quote, ‘You would do anything, pay anything, to go back in time and not vaccinate your kids.’ Mr. Kennedy, all of these things cannot be true.”
Kennedy did not address the comment about his children but said that as for his “safe and effective” remark, he was going to say no vaccine was safe and effective “in every person,” but the podcaster interrupted him before he could finish. “Bringing this up is dishonest,” he added.
Questions About COVID Views
Sen. Michael Bennet (D-Colo.) asked Kennedy whether he had said that COVID-19 was a genetically engineered bioweapon that targets Black people and white people but spared Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese people. Kennedy said he didn’t use the word “targeted” and that he was quoting from an NIH study. He also acknowledged, in response to another question from Bennet, that he did say that it was highly likely that Lyme disease is a militarily engineered bioweapon.
Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) listed several ways that Kennedy could undermine vaccine use if he was confirmed. “You can publish anti-vaccination conspiracies, but this time on government letterhead,” she said. “You can remove vaccines from special compensation programs … You can make more [vaccine] injuries eligible for compensation even if there’s no causal evidence … You could change vaccine labeling; you can change vaccine information rules. You can change which claims are compensated in the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.”
Warren also noted that Kennedy “raked in $2.5 million” from a vaccine injury law firm by promoting their services to potential clients. She asked whether he would agree not to participate in that financial arrangement while he was HHS secretary and for several years afterward. Kennedy did not answer directly but said he would “comply with all ethical guidelines.”
Role of Nutrition Programs
Nutrition also came up frequently, with Crapo asking Kennedy how he would work with Congress to integrate nutrition-based incentives into federal programs.
“Federal funding of the SNAP [Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program] program, for example, and of school lunch programs could be a driver for helping kids,” Kennedy replied. “We shouldn’t be giving 60% of the kids in school processed food that is making them sick. We shouldn’t be spending 10% of the SNAP program [budget] on sugary drinks. So we have a direct ability to change things there.” He added that NIH and FDA could do research on the relationship between food additives and chronic diseases, so Americans are educated on the issue.
“But I don’t want to take food away from anybody,” he noted. “If you like a McDonald’s cheeseburger or a Diet Coke — which my boss loves,” he said, apparently referring to President Trump, “you should be able to get them if you want … but you should know what the impacts are on your family and on your health.”
Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) asked Kennedy about integrating substance use and mental health treatment into primary care services.
“This is a priority for me,” said Kennedy. “I was a heroin addict for 14 years and am 42 years in recovery, and I go to 12-step meetings every day. So I hear stories about barriers in access to care, and we need to improve that. I think we can do that through GME [graduate medical education], which is the largest funder for medical school students, and that’s one of the things primary care physicians should understand.”
Medicare, Medicaid Issues
Sen. Bill Cassidy, MD (R-La.), asked Kennedy what could be done to improve care for dual eligibles — patients who are eligible for both Medicare and Medicaid.
“Dual eligibles are not, right now, served very well in the system … I suppose my answer to that is to make sure that the programs are consolidated, they’re integrated, and the care is integrated,” Kennedy said. As to how that would be done, Kennedy said he didn’t know but that he “looked forward to exploring options.”
On the topic of Medicare Advantage, Kennedy didn’t have much to say, other than he himself was happy as a Medicare Advantage enrollee.
At times, he appeared to conflate answers on Medicare and Medicaid. “Most people who are on Medicaid are not happy. The premiums are too high, the deductibles are too high, the networks are narrow. The best doctors will not accept it,” he said. Of note, most Medicaid patients — a program designed for low-income individuals — do not pay premiums.
He added that while he didn’t have a proposal for dismantling Medicaid, “we need to experiment with pilot programs in each state. We need to keep our eye on the ultimate goal, which is value-based care, which is transparency, accountability, and access.”
The medication abortion pill mifepristone (Mifeprex) was also discussed, with Sen. James Lankford (R-Okla.) asking Kennedy whether he would be in favor of collecting data on adverse events that patients experienced.
“It’s against everything we believe in this country, [the idea that] patients or doctors should not be reporting adverse events,” said Kennedy. “We need to know what adverse events are. We need to understand the safety of every drug … And President Trump has made it clear to me that he wants me to look at safety issues, and I’ll ask the NIH and FDA to do that.”
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