The episode began with the retired Republican politician, Perry, recounting the story of how he befriended Marcus Luttrell, a Navy SEAL who ended up living at the former governor’s mansion after reaching a low point following his return from the battlefront. The pair developed a very close bond, with Perry ultimately becoming godfather to Lutrell’s two children.
Marcus is the twin brother of Morgan Luttrell, a Republican representative since January 2023. That Morgan teamed up with fellow Republican Dan Crenshaw, as well as leftie Democrat Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, to push for a psychedelics research carve-out in the FY2024 National Defense Authorization Act, and has been a vocal supporter of further research into ibogaine’s therapeutic potential.
The Luttrell brothers had heard positive testimonials from friends who had received ibogaine treatment in Mexico, and Morgan eventually tried it, as well as 5-MeO-DMT. Marcus followed in the footsteps of his brother, trying the pair of drugs after leaving the military.
Needless to say, the Luttrells and Perry have become headliners in the political push to rehabilitate ibogaine, a case they set out in a Newsweek article that Perry scored in late 2023.
A third personality in that story is Bryan Hubbard, who found himself at the centre of efforts to carve out $42 million from Kentucky’s Opioid Abatement funds for ibogaine research and development. That plan had flopped by the end of 2023, but Hubbard is now trying to push forward a similar initiative in the Lone Star State. (Read our earlier coverage for more on how Hubbard became interested in ibogaine.)
Having introduced his interest in ibogaine, Perry repeated some common tropes about the drug, including that it ‘resets the brains’ of those who take it. He also shared with Rogan’s audience that he intends to spend the bulk of his time advocating for ibogaine’s use for veterans, saying: “You can’t argue with the data.”
But he was keen to distance himself from broader drug policy reform efforts. “I love Rick Doblin”, he said, “but I’m not gonna get there on the legalisation of drugs”. It’s only for medical use, he said.
And there appears to be a hefty strain of ibogaine exceptionalism in Perry’s comments, too. Following an advertisement for AG1 supplements, read by Rogan, Perry said: “If there was a definition of a drug that is not Schedule I, ibogaine is it.”
Put more bluntly, Hubbard later said that “any system that maintains ibogaine’s criminality is itself criminal, and needs to be tore apart brick by brick.”
For Hubbard, ‘plant medicines’ like ibogaine are gifts from a divine creator. Indeed, Hubbard’s monologuing dominated the bulk of the two-hour podcast, and towards the end devolved into a deeply religious address, which included:
“The greatest attribute that ibogaine has is its ability to affirm the reality of our human divinity. We are not the result of a random accident of astrophysics and chemistry, we are the images of an eternal creator, who put us here for a purpose, to be able to see and perceive the creator’s majesty as reflected most especially within us as individual human beings who have received the gift of love, of perception, of discernment, and the ability to connect to the majestic eternal love of that creator. Ibogaine delivers it, I can attest to the fact that it delivers it.”
Hubbard also shared that he and his wife had tried ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT, with his wife apparently then ceasing her Celexa (citalopram) prescription medicine that she had taken for 21 years to “manage symptoms of a profound mood disorder which manifested in psychotic mood swings”.
He described these two drugs as occasioning “the most profound spiritual experience either of us have ever encountered”, adding that he is “100% persuaded that these substances are divined medications that are engineered from on high so that we can heal what we do to ourselves, what we do to each other, and be affirmed by the love of our creator, which is eternal, and almighty.”
“Amen”, said Rogan.
Back from the astral plane, Perry was keen to talk politics.
“Thank God that Donald Trump won”, he exclaimed, adding: ‘He’s putting in place people who will help plant medicines work.’ “…I’m so excited about Bobby Kennedy, Jay Bacchachara, Dr Oz, Nolan Williams, individuals that may come into this administration at very high levels that are supportive of plant medicines”, he added.
In doing so, Perry made public a rumour that Stanford researcher Nolan Williams, who is known for his work in TMS and more recently ibogaine research, is possibly being considered for a position in the incoming Trump administration, ‘on the mental health side of things’.